**SPEAKER_1** (0:13)
Our episodes deal with serious and often distressing incidents. If you feel at any time you need support, please contact your local crisis centre. For suggested phone numbers for confidential support and for a more detailed list of content warnings, please see the show notes for this episode on your app or on our website. Today's episode involves crimes against children and won't be suitable for all listeners.
The police listened on as Craig Folbigg expressed his belief that maybe he had killed their four children. Kathleen asked why he would think such a thing. Craig told her to think about it. Every time they'd had a child, it had driven a wedge between them and the best way he could get Kathleen's attention was to get rid of the kids. He presented a scenario in which he waited until Kathleen went to sleep in the middle of the night and then got up to kill the children. With Laura, he waited until Kathleen went outside and then sneaked in through the front door without her ever knowing he was there. Who had anything to gain out of them not being around? Craig asked before answering, Me. Kathleen told Craig that he was being ridiculous. Craig clarified that he was suggesting a hypothetical, but that such a case against him was just as feasible as the one the police were building against Kathleen. Referring to Detective Bernie Ryan, Craig said, All I'm trying to show you is the futility of the bullshit he's going on. Kathleen said she was scared and told Craig never to mention such a thing again. It's bad enough Detective Ryan is going for one of us, she said. I'm not having him going after you. Craig told Kathleen it was Detective Ryan who had first planted the idea in his head that the children had been murdered, adding, I don't want him going after you for something you didn't do. I know you didn't do it, like you know I didn't do it. But Craig's support for Kathleen was too late. The police had already started to compile evidence that suggested to them that Craig's reported suspicions were right all along.
Detectives working the Folbigg case put together a preliminary brief of evidence. It contained the medical histories of the four Folbigg children as well as transcripts of Kathleen's police interview and copies of her diaries. Then they got to work seeking expert opinions. It quickly became clear that the majority of experts strictly adhered to Meadows Law. When it came to the unexplained death of an infant, one was a tragedy, two were suspicious, and three most likely pointed to murder. After reviewing the case, one police psychologist concluded, If natural causes are eliminated, then, in my opinion, Kathleen Folbigg became angry and frustrated with her children's crying and need for constant attention to a point where it overwhelmed her, and she lost control and consciously ended the lives of each child. The brief of evidence was also sent to Dr Susan Beale, a pediatrician from Adelaide's Women's and Children's Hospital who had studied SIDS for more than 30 years and was considered one of Australia's leading experts in the field. As far as Dr Beale was aware, there had never been more than three SIDS-related deaths in a single family anywhere in the world. The only such occurrences had later been revealed to be homicide. She also agreed with Dr Alan Karla that the deaths of Caleb and Sarah Folbigg shouldn't have been classified as SIDS. Not only weren't they in the right age bracket, but they had also both been found sleeping on their backs. 80% of SIDS deaths occur when the infant is lying on their stomach. In Patrick's case, Dr Beale didn't believe that epilepsy had caused his first apparent life-threatening event, or ALTI. In babies as young as Patrick, epileptic fits were typically caused by another disease which would be detectable in an EEG brain scan or at autopsy. Furthermore, it would be rare for the first epileptic fit to cause the level of brain damage that Patrick had sustained. As for Laura, Dr Beale didn't think the myocarditis played a role in her unexplained death either. Like Professor Hilton, she believed that Meadows Law must be applied to the Folbigg children, and that it was most likely that all four of them had been suffocated, telling Detective Ryan, I have no hesitation in saying I believe that all four children were murdered by their mother.
Detective Ryan flew to the United States to meet with Dr Janis Opphoven, a pediatric forensic pathologist who specialized in mothers who killed their children. Years of research had taught her that the number one cause of deaths in infants living in developed countries wasn't disease, but physical injury typically inflicted by a caregiver. After reviewing the Folbigg Casefile and examining tissue samples taken from the four children, Dr Opphoven ruled that none of their deaths could be attributed to SIDS. She stated that SIDS is not a hereditary problem and that, quote, The statistical likelihood that four children could die from SIDS is in excess of one in a trillion. As the children had all been growing normally and their autopsies identified no sign of disease, Dr Opphoven believed that all four of them had been suffocated by the last person to see them alive– Kathleen Folbigg. Dr Alan Karla submitted his final autopsy report for Laura, listing her death as undetermined and stating it was possible that all four children were deliberately smothered. He pointed out that it would be relatively easy for an adult to smother an infant or small child using their hand, a soft toy or a pillow without leaving a trace. Dr Karla's report concluded, The possibility of multiple homicides in this family has not been excluded.
66 more minutes of transcript below
Try it now — copy, paste, done:
curl -H "x-api-key: pt_demo" \
https://spoken.md/transcripts/1000759190329
Works with Claude, ChatGPT, Cursor, and any agent that makes HTTP calls.
Get the full transcriptFrom $0.10 per transcript. No subscription. Credits never expire.
Using your own key:
curl -H "x-api-key: YOUR_KEY" \
https://spoken.md/transcripts/1000759190329