A.I. Safety Is So Back + Mythos Mayhem with Nikesh Arora + Hot Mess Express

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
So there's a lot of noise about AI, but time's too tight for more promises. So let's talk about results. At IBM, we work with our employees to integrate technology right into the systems they need. Now, a global workforce of 300,000 can use AI to fill their HR questions, resolving 94 percent of common questions.
Not noise, proof of how we can help companies get smarter by putting AI where it actually pays off, deep in the work that moves the business. Let's create smart to business, IBM.

**Kevin Roose** (0:30)
Casey, will you record my audio book for me?

**Casey Newton** (0:33)
Yes, I would love to actually.

**Kevin Roose** (0:34)
Okay, thanks. Yeah, because I got the briefing yesterday on what this would entail for me. They want 36 hours in the studio to record this audio book.

**Casey Newton** (0:44)
That's, wait, hold on, 8, 16, 24 That's over four days worth. That's four and a half days of recording. That's like almost a full week.

**Kevin Roose** (0:52)
I know.

**Casey Newton** (0:53)
Oh my God.

**Kevin Roose** (0:54)
I know, but apparently people have a connection to us because of our voices, so they didn't want me using like an AI clone to do it.

**Casey Newton** (1:00)
It makes it, you know what? I really think that there would be a case that I should do this because it would force me to read your book. You know what I mean? Like put me, like then I really can't get out of it. Like I'm on the hook to read this thing for real.
And so that might be the best way to do it.

**Kevin Roose** (1:15)
You can insert your little like snotty wisecracks if you want, like mystery science theater.

**Casey Newton** (1:21)
Yeah, a little extra commentary on the side, like, oh, I see we're using that transition again.

**Kevin Roose** (1:26)
Hmm.

**Casey Newton** (1:28)
Oh boy, he really ended this whole thing with time will tell. I would have suggested a different direction. Was this book edited?

**Kevin Roose** (1:36)
No, wait, now I kind of actually want you to do it. I'm Kevin Roose, a tech columnist at The New York Times.

**Casey Newton** (1:47)
I'm Casey Newton from Platformer.

**Kevin Roose** (1:49)
And this is Hard Fork.

**Casey Newton** (1:50)
This week, is AI safety back? The Trump administration seems to be changing its tune. Then, Palo Alto Network CEO Nikesh Arora joins us to discuss what's real and what's hype in the freak out over Claude Mythos. And finally, the train has returned to the station. It's the Hot Mess Express.

**Kevin Roose** (2:07)
Buckle up.

**Casey Newton** (2:08)
People don't typically buckle a seatbelt on a train.

**Kevin Roose** (2:12)
This is a very safe train.

**Casey Newton** (2:13)
All right.

**Kevin Roose** (2:21)
Well, the big news this week is that President Trump headed to China with a cohort of American business executives to have a series of meetings about Chinese trade policy and AI and other things with Xi Jinping and other leading Chinese officials.

**Casey Newton** (2:37)
Now, is it true when they walked off the plane, a bunch of H100s fell out of the leg of Jensen Wong's pants?

**Kevin Roose** (2:45)
I haven't heard that confirmed, but I'll look into it.

**Casey Newton** (2:47)
Thank you.

**Kevin Roose** (2:48)
I want to talk about this, but less through the lens of President Trump and United States trade policy than through this larger shift that I think we've both observed over the past week or so, which is that after several years of dismissing AI safety and doomer fear mongering about AI, the Trump administration, or at least parts of the Trump administration, seem to be getting quite scared about what's happening.

**Casey Newton** (3:11)
Yes. And while this is something that I think was honestly inevitable, it still has been inspiring to see it happen because it seems like this administration has really turned on a dime when it comes to this subject. Yeah.

**Kevin Roose** (3:23)
So let's talk about what's been going on and some of the data points that support the idea that the Trump administration is sort of changing its AI posture, or at least has several different AI postures that it's considering. But first, let's do our AI disclosures. I work for The New York Times, which is suing OpenAI, Microsoft and Perplexity.

**Casey Newton** (3:39)
And my fiancee works at Anthropic.

**Kevin Roose** (3:41)
So first, there was this executive order or rumored executive order that my colleagues at The New York Times reported on last week. This would be a new executive order to create an AI working group that would bring together tech executives and government officials to potentially come up with new ways of overseeing or regulating AI.