#845: How to Use Ketosis for Enhanced Mood, Cognition, and Long-Term Brain Protection — A Practical and Tactical Guide with Dr. Dominic D'Agostino (Plus: Deconstructing Tim’s Latest Keto Experiment)

**Tim Ferriss** (0:00)
Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferris. Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferris Show. This particular episode, I think, is probably my most practical, tactical discussion of ketosis, what the benefits are, how to implement it, when the rubber hits the road, what do you do? What do you do? What do you try to avoid? What are some of the challenges? And this conversation with Dom D'Agostino, I'll describe him in a second, took place about midway through a month-long experiment. I've done a lot of ketogenic dieting. I've experimented with it since probably the late 90s. And my latest bout was one month wearing both a continuous glucose monitor and a continuous ketone monitor. And we basically deconstructed it. And I got Dom's advice on how to tweak it, how to fine tune it. Now, why would you even want to consider ketosis? And we also get into exogenous ketones, so supplemental ketones. They've become quite the topic du jour, quite popular among certain athletic populations and so on. But we talk about toxicity with some of these supplements and what to look out for. We talk about ketone dependence and withdrawal. We talk about before and after testing and lots of ways that you can be a bit smarter, a bit more informed about approaching all of this. So the benefits, why would you even consider this? Why have I myself spent so much time in ketosis, so to speak? Well, there are a few things. Immediately, I will notice once I get to a certain concentration in my blood, and that's generally around, let's just call it 0.7 millimolars, measured with a finger prick, and then more as you get going, I need less sleep. So instead of eight to nine hours, six hours, six and a half hours, I wake up and I am wide awake, so that's another difference. I wake up and I am wide awake alert, ready to go. I don't need an hour of booting up and tons of caffeine to get online. I am mentally sharper. My verbal acuity, my ability to think just has a faster turnover. And in the afternoons, I do not have what you would typically associate with say a normal diet involving lots of carbohydrates, the afternoon dip. I don't need a nap. I don't need a huge extra cup of coffee around two or three in the afternoon to keep me going. That is just unnecessary altogether.
But those all pale in comparison to the mood-stabilizing and enhancing effects. It just takes the ups and downs. And maybe this is peculiar to me, but it preserves the ups. I'm not going through crazy manic swings, but it doesn't mute your upside in terms of mood, but it really stabilizes and minimizes the downswings. And that in and of itself makes it worth it to me. And then there are questions around long-term benefits, possible neuroprotection, anti-inflammation, anti-cancer effects. And this conversation with Dom really informed and changed how I think about how I in the future am going to approach ketosis, which will still remain in my quiver, is something I use regularly. So Dom, who is Dom? I'm going to keep it super short. Dr. Dominic D'Agostino is a tenured associate professor in the Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Physiology at the University of South Florida Morsani College of Medicine and a visiting senior research scientist at the Institute for Human and Machine Cognition. He's also a beast of an athlete in his own right. We won't get into that now. His research focuses on the development and testing of nutritional strategies and metabolic-based therapies for neurological disorders. This includes psychiatric disorders, cancer and human performance optimization. And he has served as a research investigator and crew member on NASA's Extreme Environment Mission Operations. His research has been supported by the Office of Naval Research, the Department of Defense, the NIH and much more. So he's an impressive operator. He walks the talk. He practices what he preaches. So without further ado, please enjoy a very wide-ranging, very practical conversation with Dom D'Agostino.

**Dominic D'Agostino** (4:14)
At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Can I ask you a personal question?

**Tim Ferriss** (4:37)
Dom, happy holidays. Nice to see you.

**Dominic D'Agostino** (4:40)
Great to see you, Tim.

**Tim Ferriss** (4:41)
So I suggest we hop on the phone because I have been harassing the living hell out of you with so many questions via text message. And I thought, you know, this must be pretty annoying. So rather than answer me once, why don't we hop on and record a bunch of the details? Because the details are so fascinating. And for people who are just tuning in, who might not know the good doctor D'Agostino, Dominic, we should establish some basics. And I, at this point, have been, quote, unquote, in ketosis for 18 days now. And we'll dig into a lot of questions around that. Tactical, practical questions. But before we do, why would someone, and we can talk about what it is and so on, but first let's just give some of the, let's call it established benefits, ideally in human studies, but could extend to animal models. And then if there's anything on the horizon, say in the next few years, because you're at the cutting edge, if you think there's anything that might plausibly be established as a benefit, what could that be? So what would you put on the bullet list of benefits of intermittently or for extended periods of time being in ketosis?